"...why very bad things happen to good people..."
In the National Review article by Heather Macdonald, a couple good points are made and she raises a traditional question that is almost always raised by non-believers (and often by believers when bad things happen).
1. "If a belief system is not true, however useful it may be, it seems frankly cynical or condescending to counsel it for others." Absolutely true. Unless, of course, it benefits them in some objective way that all could agree as a net positive, in that case it would fall into a less black and white area, such as the Easter Bunny or Flying Reindeer. However, that's not my main point, just a side comment and a great anchor for another discussion topic.
2. "...subjective experience is not always a guarantor of objective reality....an outside observer needs something more to reach that conclusion" Also true. Simply believing something to be true does not make it objectively true. The opposite is also true: Something absolutely true is not rendered untrue by lack of empirical evidence.
3. And then the question: " I have to revert to the question of why very bad things happen to good people...". I have heard this many times and it is a fair question. In Heather's (and perhaps every case) the real thrust of all the above could be restated to say:
"Many people say they know or believe what is true regarding Christianity, Christian Science, Islam, etc. However, I need proof that a there is a God and that this God knows and loves me. Unfortunately, the proof I need is undermined by the very fact that terrible things happen to good people, so therefore that contradiction between a God's supposed love and the objective reality makes me an atheist or agnostic. As an Atheist/Agnostic, your efforts to create an environment in line with your beliefs clashes with my rights to not operate in that environment."
In a "show me" world, I think the above is a fair statement and I've heard it many times.
However, I think the above is really just smoke. People believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence and will stick to that belief to their dying breath until a fundamental change occurs inside that allows them to accept a change.
Those who claim a need for objective proof do not want objective proof, they want to not believe. If Jesus showed up at their door, they'd call the police to have him arrested for door to door preaching.
You do not have to go into the spiritual realm to see this behaviour. The anti-Bush crowd cannot accept anything coming from his administration as genuine or real; everything is fabricated for consumption by the evil genius, Karl Rove. The President is a stupid puppet on someone's knee, etc.
People believe what they want to believe and order their facts to support their beliefs.
Why do bad things happen to good people? I don't know, but I could talk for hours on why I think it is. A more interesting thing to ask a non-believer is, why do bad things happen to bad people? That answer will be a far more interesting one.
1. "If a belief system is not true, however useful it may be, it seems frankly cynical or condescending to counsel it for others." Absolutely true. Unless, of course, it benefits them in some objective way that all could agree as a net positive, in that case it would fall into a less black and white area, such as the Easter Bunny or Flying Reindeer. However, that's not my main point, just a side comment and a great anchor for another discussion topic.
2. "...subjective experience is not always a guarantor of objective reality....an outside observer needs something more to reach that conclusion" Also true. Simply believing something to be true does not make it objectively true. The opposite is also true: Something absolutely true is not rendered untrue by lack of empirical evidence.
3. And then the question: " I have to revert to the question of why very bad things happen to good people...". I have heard this many times and it is a fair question. In Heather's (and perhaps every case) the real thrust of all the above could be restated to say:
"Many people say they know or believe what is true regarding Christianity, Christian Science, Islam, etc. However, I need proof that a there is a God and that this God knows and loves me. Unfortunately, the proof I need is undermined by the very fact that terrible things happen to good people, so therefore that contradiction between a God's supposed love and the objective reality makes me an atheist or agnostic. As an Atheist/Agnostic, your efforts to create an environment in line with your beliefs clashes with my rights to not operate in that environment."
In a "show me" world, I think the above is a fair statement and I've heard it many times.
However, I think the above is really just smoke. People believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence and will stick to that belief to their dying breath until a fundamental change occurs inside that allows them to accept a change.
Those who claim a need for objective proof do not want objective proof, they want to not believe. If Jesus showed up at their door, they'd call the police to have him arrested for door to door preaching.
You do not have to go into the spiritual realm to see this behaviour. The anti-Bush crowd cannot accept anything coming from his administration as genuine or real; everything is fabricated for consumption by the evil genius, Karl Rove. The President is a stupid puppet on someone's knee, etc.
People believe what they want to believe and order their facts to support their beliefs.
Why do bad things happen to good people? I don't know, but I could talk for hours on why I think it is. A more interesting thing to ask a non-believer is, why do bad things happen to bad people? That answer will be a far more interesting one.
posted by wennejunk at 10:02 AM
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